I'm not quite sure what to think

[fun_like_that]

I saw this posted on ohnotheydidnt but I'm reposting the video here rather than linking to that page because of the comments there. Some are purposefully trying to start wank and raise people's hackles, others are just being douchebags and there are some people outright being homophobic and stupid.

This short film, "Starcrossed", was shot (from what I gather in the comments at ONTD) about a year before Prison Break started and stars the guy who plays LJ from that show. It also has the guy who played Mitch Leary (aka Dawson's dad) from Dawson's Creek. It's about two brothers who fall in love and start a physical relationship with each other.

I guess... I'm not really sure what to think. I'd give some of the naysayers one thing, it's not a particularly well-done piece but with more time and money and a chance to really explore the relationship between the boys I think this could have developed into something really, really interesting and thought-provoking. Not that it isn't as it is but it could be more than a 12-minute video.

It kind of made me think about my view of fandom and Sam/Dean as a couple and how we view certain pairings and why. I don't really have anything conclusive to come from it and I wonder if I only thought of that because this was more real. Yes, the boys in the short are actors and I KNOW that in my mind as I'm watching but it's physical and a visual account of two brothers, not just words in a fic that we write. It touches at a different level than the relationship we put characters in through words.

I think maybe I am trying to perhaps find a reason to ... disapprove, I guess? But I can't, at least not in the way that most normal, non-fandom oriented people do. Is there anything wrong with that? Depends on what angle you look at it from and who you are.

Am I making any points here? Not really. Do I have any freaking clue what I'm rambling on about? You know I don't. But the film did make me actively think about these things that I think I may have pushed aside when I jumped on board the Sam/Dean train (almost a year ago! Ten months!). I'm not questioning fandom or my ship or anything, but I just found this film very interesting and a dialogue opener for comparisons, perhaps.

Overall I found the video very sad, very moving and although stilted and melodramatic, believable. Very simple.

If you've seen it before or are just viewing it for the first time I'd love to hear what you thought about it, think about it now and perhaps if it's changed between then and now. Forgive my own non-sensical thoughts, it's 3.30am, after all.

Comments

[underworld.livejournal.com]

I downloaded it a while ago, and while the subject was a bit different I really found the story beautiful. I agree that with more time it could have had more power. But it's weird how in just the short.. 15 or so minutes I was able to find myself completely attached to the characters.

It's an odd feeling supporing incestuous relationships, but for some reason it's easier for gay incest rather than straight, I'm guessing because guys can't get pregnant lol.

But yeah I'm done rambling. I just wanted to say it's cool you watched it and tell you I loved it :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_alicesprings/]

Thanks for that. I found it quite sad and lovely. I'd never seen it before.

As for Sam/Dean fic, I've never read any. More so because I only have interest in the QaF fandom than from any problem with the pairing. But having said that, I don't think I'd read any fic anyway, if it was explicit, which I'm assuming some of it at least, is.

[morgaine22.livejournal.com]

Wow. That is the first film depiction I've seen that has addressed the issue in a brother's relationship. I agree, it wasn't well made but it was brave and that in itself seems worthy of some appreciation.

Like you, I have a hard time being disapproving. I think once your mind accepts different kinds of love, it just accepts it, regardless of what shape or form it comes in. I was JUST thinking about this last night, as a matter of fact, because a friend of a friend on the flist made a comment about how 'ew' she didn't want any of that incest stuff but she wanted to watch Supernatural. And it actually made me feel bad. As in, people look down on something I like; they abhor it and what does that say about what they think of me? This is the same for any criticism, however, so I quickly shucked it off.

I also drew comparisons from the short to the S/D relationship ('Hmm. Older brother: too emo. Tone it down; Dean would never cry like that...') but I suppose that's inevitable given our, er, S/D fanaticism.

Look, I rambled on too and it's only 5am here. :)

[tabaqui]

I watched this not too long ago and basically i thought 'oh, you idiots! You drowned yourselves!! Why didn't you just *run away*!!!!'

I don't do 'melodramatic life ending gestures' very well. I've never had a 'problem', as it were, with incest. Yes, there could be a big power imbalence in an older sibling/younger sibling relationship, but that's true of a lot of other ships, too. I've consistently *written* incest in my own original work, pretty much always a brother and sister who are twins, so the power/age thing doesn't come into play much.

Parent/child incest is a big 'no' for me, mostly because there is *too* much power on one side, and abuse and manipulation are too easy in a pairing like that. But siblings - especially siblings who are being careful not to breed - i've never had a problem with that. The desire *does* exist, and while i have no interest in 'being with' my own siblings, i can see it happening in some situations.

The Sam/Dean one being one, where two siblings are isolated from the world and rely on each other almost exclusively. The progression of intimacy is almost natural and i think that you can't actually control where and who you love.

It's a pity that this is getting so many negative comments when it could really be something interesting and enlightening and *thought provoking*.

I totally get that incest is not a good thing for a lot of people but i'm not worried about my own enjoyment of the Sam/Dean 'ship.

[silver-spotted.livejournal.com]

hi, I'd never even heard of that video, but ow does it make me hurt for those boys. I don't really have a coherent response to your points, which I think are interesting/important, but I'd like to. I'm going to have to go away and think about this, but if I don't get back to leave you a more coherent response, I just wanted to say thank you for posting the video and jump-starting my own thoughts :)

[smidgy06.livejournal.com]

I saw it a good long while ago.

And my reaction was !! YEEEEEEEEEE and then :( - when I watch it now I rarely watch until the end.

I just. I dunno - I thought it was well done - for a short piece.

And my favourite bit was the hand touching in the theatre. Oh, man.

And Darren's "I don't not like how this feels." Because just YES!

[citibyrd.livejournal.com]

I heard about this a while ago, but hadn't seen it yet, so thanks for posting it.

I agree it wasn't the most well-done short, but it certainly was thought-provoking, and by then end I was attached to the characters. I guess I've never really been against incest. Unconventional relationships have always interested me, because they do happen sometimes in real life, and I feel so bad that most people will look down on them. That's not to say that I wouldn't have a problem with any type of relationship--for instance parent/child incest does bother me because one person holds so much power over the other. But if it's a truly loving, consensual relationship between siblings (that aren't breeding), it just doesn't seem so terrible to me.

It's interesting/brave that this short was made, and I wonder if anybody's feelings on the subject were changed after they saw it.

[turnyourankle.livejournal.com]

Yeah I've seen it before. I guess you read that he was planning on making it a full feature when he could afford it (I think it was in the post) which I think would work much better.

I think it was ok. Built sympathy, but really didn't develop much character. And I don't think there was enough build for me to actually perceive them as brothers. It's one thing to know that's what they "are" but actually getting that sense is something else, so it being incest didn't really squick me out.

Then again I've never really had a problem with incest. It's not even just cause it's slash, I love Max/Isabel (Roswell) and Simon/River (Firefly) too. And honestly, I don't really care about those people freaking out, cause it's a movie, and those are characters. And for some shows, the chemistry is just there, and there'll always be subtext. And that's my two cents.

[ilovesn.livejournal.com]

I've actually seen this movie. Have it downloaded and i just loved it. I think that if they would have had more character developtment it would have been WAY better.

It's very sad.

I feel like it was a cop out.

They should have just made them go away together.

Leave their home and go somewhere far away where they could have pursued their love and been happy.

But overall, i did like it ALOT.

[shiagurl.livejournal.com]

That was really... interesting. More than 12 minutes would have been really nice, though. It could have been a really well done full-length movie. It was really good. I would have paid movie fare to see it.

[mcfeste.livejournal.com]

Hi. I know I never commented on this back when you posted it, but I've thought about it a lot. I'm not really into Sam/Dean as a romantic ship, not because I "disapprove" of it, just because...well, no reason. I'm just not. But I am curious about what attracts Wincest fans to the ship, and I was wondering if you'd mind talking about it. I know I'm fairly new to your flist, so maybe you already have, and it's a fairly plebey request in the first place -- sorry about that.

Anyway, if you're interested in replying, I've made a comment to this effect in bigboobedcanuck's recent polling post. No pressure either way. :)

[marishna.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if you saw it but I had been thinking about your comment and then the questions for spn_fridayfive came up last week that related to this so I kind of answered you rquestion in a long-ish post here. I think it's a really interesting subject to discuss, especially since I'm not really sure where I stand on the whole thing. :)

[mcfeste.livejournal.com]

No, I hadn't seen it! I have been woefully behind on LJ lately due to crazy work hours, so thank you for commenting to direct me to the post. I will head over there right away.

[soleta-nf.livejournal.com]

The ending made me cry. It would have been nice to see the fallout, people's reaction to the suicides, but I suppose it might be better to leave conclusions up to the viewers. I agree that I don't quite know how I feel about the incest part, but bottom line, they loved each other and what's so wrong with that?

It makes me think of Flowers in the Attic, where the sibling shagging is more romantic than squicky; you know it's wrong, but somehow you don't care - at least for that story. I don't know. Though-provoking, like you said.